When I read the newsletter this morning about the long down [Read this Karen's Letter here [0] - Ed.], I thought about the traditional classes I've been taking with my clicker [0] trained 8-month-old puppy. I take it for the deadlines and accountability. I never correct and never use the long down. But when I first started taking PUPPY classes (I'm in beginner now), I did the long down 3 times. Their long down is 1/2 hour of pushing your dog into a down to show him/her that you are dominant. Didn't go over very well with me and Pate. That newsletter gave me the shivers. I'll NEVER do anything forceful AGAIN!